European Jewish Congress: Amid rising anti-Semitism, Jewish life in Europe unsustainable

“Normative Jewish life in Europe is unsustainable,” European Jewish Congress President Moshe Kantor said on Sunday. Presenting the results of a study on worldwide anti-Semitism in 2013 by the eponymous Kantor Center for the Study of Contemporary European Jewry at Tel Aviv University, Kantor cited increasing rising anti-Semitism and decreased “fear and insecurity” as factors leading to a European Jewish decline.

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“Confronted with hate speech online, extremist rhetoric in political arenas and BDS campaigns on campuses, there is a risk that young Jews may begin to view their Jewish identities as a burden,” she said.

Source: Jerusalem Post

Will Ukraine's Revolution Be Good for Its Jews?

The most ardent Jewish supporter of Maidan has been Joseph Zissels, chairman of the Va’ad—Association of Jewish Organizations and Communities in Ukraine. Since his days as a young dissident in the 1960s, Zissels has worked to bring together the Ukrainian and Jewish movements. He spent six years in the Soviet Gulag, and went on to found the Va’ad in 1989. Zissels argues that Jews and Ukrainians need to turn a new page in their relations, and overcome old grudges, suspicions, and stereotypes. Maidan represents integration with Europe, he says. That is good for Ukraine, and is especially good for its Jews.

On the night of February 20, after the bloodiest day in modern Ukrainian history, with more than 70 people dead in the streets of Kiev and society on the verge of civil war, the country’s most respected TV political talk show, “Freedom of Speech,” featured an interview with Zissels.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/193410/will-ukraines-revolution-be-good-for-its-jews/?p=all#ixzz2xHCminId

Anti-Semitism is 'Part and Parcel of European Culture'

Europe hasn't changed all that much, at least in regards to its feelings about Jews, according to Dr. Manfred Gerstenfeld, former head of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.

“They don't like to hear that,” Gersetenfeld told a Haifa audience last week. “But it's clear that anti-Semitism is a part and parcel of the culture of Europe, not just historically, but currently.”

  Source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/178788#.UzWXM3WSwie

Israel's solution to African "infiltrators" : send them to Australia so that Israel remains a Jewish state with a clear and solid Jewish majority

MK Danny Danon (Likud) asked Australian MP Michael Danbyon Wednesday to propose, in parliament in Canberra, sending African migrants from Israel to Australia.

Danon and Danby discussed the issue during the Australian politician’s visit to Israel for the World Jewish Congress’s International Conference of Jewish Parliamentarians.

“The arrival of thousands of Muslim infiltrators to Israeli territory is a clear threat to the state’s Jewish identity,” Danon told The Jerusalem Post.

“The refugees’ place is not among us, and the initiative to transfer them to Australia is the right and just solution.

“On the one hand, it treats the refugees and migrants in a humane way. On the other hand, it does not threaten Israel’s future and our goal to maintain a clear and solid Jewish majority,” he explained.

Source: Jerusalem Post

This is Jewish double standard in its pristine purity. Illustrative for the hatred and contempt Jews have for Western nations they parasitise. Imagine what if the same inflamatory words were issued by a goy...

Jewish News, Dan Goldberg: Jews were instrumental in leading the crusade against the White Australia policy

"Our faith teaches and emphasizes the universal principles of coexistence and respect for human dignity and rights," Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick, the president of the Organization of Rabbis of Australia, said in a statement. "It teaches the need to recognize and rectify any failings we may display in our interaction between our fellow man. To say ‘sorry’ in a meaningful manner goes a long way in ensuring that mistakes and discrimination will not be repeated."

In addition to their activism on Aboriginal issues, Jews were instrumental in leading the crusade against the White Australia Policy, a series of laws from 1901 to 1973 that restricted non-white immigration to Australia.

Author: Dan Goldberg
Source: Australian Jewish News

Palestinians plan to create an "Anti-Semitic state", that does not welcome more Jewish settlers

Says:
David Bedein, who grew up in Philadelphia and moved to Israel in 1970 at the age of 20, is an MSW community organizer by profession and an expereinced investigative journalis
Source: http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/challenge-to-the-global-forum-against-anti-semitism-the-genesis-of-an-anti-semitic-state/

Netanyahu: Israel is most threatened state in world

"Israel is the most threatened state in the world," Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Sunday at the start of "national emergency week."

Source: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Netanyahu-Israel-is-the-most-threatened-state-in-the-world-314390

Anti-Semitism is part of Europe’s DNA

European Jewish Union CEO Tomer Orni, the organizer of the conference together with the European Jewish Parliament and Tzedek, the Association of European Jewish Lawyers, opened the discussion on Tuesday by insisting “anti-Semitism is part of Europe’s DNA”. “It is rooted in Europe and there were always different sources of motivations for anti-Semitism.”

Source: http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/61412

Jewish directors challenge Israel

Eyes Wide Open provoked anger and walkouts when it was screened. It is a love story between two Orthodox Jewish men set in Jerusalem. Despite trying to keep their affair secret, the pair are threatened with violence by the community's elders, leading to tragedy.

Source: Al Jazeera

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COMMENT
I don't understand why was there any anger and walkouts. If there were CHRISTIANS, it would have been deemed a "courageous" movie and Jews would have labeled as "nazis" whoever deplored it or, worse still, expose those pulling the plugs behind it.

12 Jews honored on African stamps as Apartheid fighters

Source: Jerusalem Post

In the struggle against South African Apartheid, according to one of the commemorative sheets, it was estimated that Jews were overrepresented by 2,500 percent in proportion to the governing white population. 

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Meanwhile, Jews cleansed Palestine of Arabs, build walls to encircle West Bank,

starve Palestinians in Gaza but this is not apartheid!  

Jewish groups "express dismay" over Arizona's restrictive immigration law

Source: http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/04/26/2394504/groups-slam-arizona-law

An array of Jewish groups expressed their dismay at the passage of Arizona's restrictive new immigration enforcement law.
"The Jewish community has long called on our national leaders to reform our immigration laws to 'welcome the stranger' and to create an effective federal immigration system characterized by the rule of law and the humane treatment of newcomers," the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society said in a statement after Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed the law Friday afternoon.
HIAS went on to say that the governor's signing of the measure "not only threatens the necessary trust between police and their communities, but the decision also betrays the proud history of a nation built by immigrants."
The new law requires that police check the immigration status of anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant. Civil liberties groups, including many Jewish groups, say the law effectively mandates racial profiling.Other Jewish groups registering their protests included the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, the Anti-Defamation League and the Simon Wiesenthal Center..

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COMMENT

Should the other "nation built by immigrants" open its borders and welcome the third world within?

Auschwitz Sign Likely Stolen by Holocaust Deniers

Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau, Chairman of Yad VaShem Holocaust Museum and a survivor of the Holocaust said that the theft of the sign from the gate to Auschwitz was “another step by Holocaust deniers who were bothered by this sign. The sign was one of the existent symbols of the Holocaust.”

Source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135083

Followup: Poland declares state of emergency after Arbeit Macht Frei sign stolen from Auschwitz

Jews are asking for blood:

Shimon Peres, president of Israel, discussed the theft with Poland's prime minister, Donald Tusk, in Copenhagen today. "The state of Israel and the Jewish people in their entirety ask that you take the necessary steps to catch the criminals and return the sign to its place," he told Tusk. "The sign is of profound historical significance both for the Jewish people and the entire world."

And servants comply by declaring... STATE OF EMERGENCY:

A state of emergency was announced in Poland today involving tightened border controls and random police checks as a nationwide hunt was launched for the infamous bronze sign to the former German Nazi death camp Auschwitz after it was stolen.

Main suspects are Gypsies or... HOLOCAUST DENIERS:

There was widespread speculation over who might have been behind the robbery, with investigators looking into suggestions that it could have been anyone from scrap metal dealers to Holocaust deniers, from rightwing collectors of Nazi memorabilia to pre-Christmas pranksters.

Plus a very opportune BRAND NEW holocaust survivor story for those who may need reeducation for not buying the official line:

Benjamin Jacobs, a Jewish dental student from Poland, spent five years in Nazi concentration camps, including Auschwitz....

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/18/auschwitz-arbeit-macht-frei-sign

Holocaust: Jews themselves can only provide names for half of the six million

Source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/174253

Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust memorial, is still missing names and details of as many as half of the Jews killed by the Nazis during the Holocaust. Yad Vashem officials said that only 3.6 million of the names of Jews killed in the Nazi genocide are recorded in the museum's database. The organization is making efforts now to gather the rest of the information.

Officials asked anyone with information about a Holocaust victim they suspected was not included in the database to contact the organization. Visitors to Yad Vashem's site, at http://www.yadvashem.org, can search the database as well

The Holocaust must never be forgotten for mankind to progress

Source: http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2009/11/15/opinion/srv0000006812760.txt

Apparently, comments aren't censored (yet):

Mike T wrote on Nov 15, 2009 9:03 AM:

" Why is the Holocaust more important than all the other genocides and mass killings that have taken place throughout history? Why do we see endless efforts to promote Holocaust education and remembrance but nary a word spoken about the Armenian genocide, Pol Pot's regime, the Nanking Massacre, etc.? It seems rather evident that there are those who believe that Jewish lives are more important than the lives of everyone else. "

Report Abuse

Mike T wrote on Nov 15, 2009 9:11 AM:

" By the way, before anyone says it: Yes, I know this particular article gives token mention to genocides other than the Holocaust. That doesn't change my point, though. Why do we hear about the Holocaust so much more often than about other genocides? How many museums in the US are dedicated to genocides other than the Holocaust? How many educational programs in schools? How many survivors' organizations? Again, it seems clear that the Holocaust is being promoted as "unique," and that's because many believe that Jewish lives are more valuable than the lives of the rest of us. "

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Vladimir wrote on Nov 15, 2009 9:50 AM:

" Jews murdered 66,000,000 Russians with their communist terror. That is the Holocaust. I am horrified and offended that Jews are still trying to play "victim" when it is well known that as a nation, they are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity. "

Report Abuse

Rob wrote on Nov 15, 2009 1:52 PM:

" The holocaust is a crock and a propaganda ploy for the jews to gain leverage over whites my making them feel guilty and obligated to them. If there was any truth to the holocaust, they wouldn't have laws in Europe throwing historians in prison who questions its details and veracity. There was a saying in communist countries: You can always tell who it is who runs a society. It is the people you are never allowed to criticize or question. "

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EU under Jews: Jews create a "virtual Holocaust victim" who now has over 1,700 friends on Facebook

Author: Linda Vierecke

Source: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4908523,00.html

A young Holocaust victim has been brought back to life on the Internet. As a virtual figure, a young Jewish boy from Poland writes about his life during the Second World War - and he's looking for friends on Facebook.

Is it ok for a Jewish woman to marry a black Muslim guy?

Source: http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/539,1870138/Is-it-ok-for-a-Jewish-woman-to-marry-a-black-Muslim-guy.html#articlepage

How Israel's Propaganda Machine Works

Author: James Zogby

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/how-israels-propaganda-ma_b_156767.html

As in past Mideast conflicts, both the media story line and political commentary here in the U.S. has closely followed Israel's talking points on the war. This has been an essential component in Israel's early success and in its ability to prolong fighting without U.S. pushback. Because it recognizes the importance of the propaganda war, Israel fights on this front as vigorously and disproportionately as it engages on the battlefield.

Here's how they have done it:

1) Define the terms of debate, and you win the debate. Early on, the Israelis work to define the context, the starting point, and the story line that will shape understanding of the war. In this instance, for example, they succeeded by constant repetition, in establishing the notion that the starting point of the conflict was December 19th, the end of the six-month ceasefire (which Israel described as "unilaterally ended by Hamas"). In doing so, they ignored, of course, their own early November violations, and their failure to honor their commitment in the ceasefire to open Gaza's borders. They also ignored their having reduced Gaza into a dependency, a process which began long before and continued after their withdrawal in 2005. Because they know that most Americans do not closely follow the conflict and are inclined to believe, as the line goes, "what they hear over and over again," this tactic of preemptive definition and repetition succeeds.

2) Recognize that stereotypes work. Because, for generations, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been defined with positive cultural images of Israel and negative stereotypes of Palestinians, Israel's propagandists have an advantage here that is easy to exploit. Because the story has long been seen as "Israeli humanity confronting the Palestinian problem," media coverage of any conflict begins with how "the problem" is affecting the Israeli people. As Golda Meir once put it, "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children, but we can never forgive them for making us kill their children." And so, it was not surprising that, despite the disproportionate suffering of the Palestinians, media coverage attempted to "balance" the story, giving an extensive treatment, with photos, of anguished and fearful Israelis and the impact the war was having on them. Early on, when media treatment mattered most, Palestinians were reduced, as always, to mere numbers or objectified as "collateral damage."

3) Anticipate and count on your opponent's blunders. Hamas' stupidity played into Israel's strategy. From the outset, Israel could count on the fact that Hamas would launch rockets and issue the kind of threats that Israel could then parley into sympathy in the West. Knowing that these would most certainly come, and could be exploited, was an advantage in their propaganda war.

4) Be everywhere, and say the same thing -- and make sure your opponents remain as invisible as possible. Israel begins each war with a host of English-speaking spokespersons (many born in the West) available at any time for every media outlet (it's no accident, for example, that Israel has an "Arab" Consul General in Atlanta - that's where CNN is). The work of their propaganda operation, which spreads multiple spokespersons in venues across the United States with consistent talking points, guarantees success. At the same time, they are able to deny media access to Gaza, only allowing the Western reporters to operate near the war zone under IDF supervision, guaranteeing Israel the opportunity to shape every aspect of the story while removing the possibility of independent verification of the horror unfolding in Gaza.

5) Give no ground. Since half of the story will be determined by what political leaders say and do, the political apparatus in Washington is also pressed into service, ensuring that White House and Congressional leadership will "toe the line." Statements issued by Congress, therefore, reflect the talking points and, together, the Israeli spokespersons, the political commentators, and the Congressional statements serve as echoes of one another.

6) Deny, deny, deny. When events and reality break through, contradicting the Israeli-established narrative, creating stories that run counter to the imposed story line, the propaganda machine works overtime to deny, deny, deny (saying quite boldly, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?"), and/or concoct a counter-narrative that shifts the blame ("We didn't do it, they made us"). In this instance, that means asserting that the death of Palestinian civilians is always the fault of someone else, or that reporters or their opponents are staging the photos of grief (as if to say, "Arabs don't really grieve like we do").

7) The last refuge.... When all else fails, point to a few examples of outrageous anti-Semitism, generalize them, suggesting that that is what motivates critics. It stings, and may be over-used, but it can silence or put critics on the defensive.

Top 5 Lies about Israel's Assault on Gaza

Author: Jeremy R. Hammond, editor of Foreign Policy Journal

Source: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50330&hd=&size=1&l=e

Lie #1: Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated pieces of property in the world. The presence of militants within a civilian population does not, under international law, deprive that population of their protected status, and hence any assault upon that population under the guise of targeting militants is, in fact, a war crime.

Moreover, the people Israel claims are legitimate targets are members of Hamas, which Israel says is a terrorist organization. Hamas has been responsible for firing rockets into Israel. These rockets are extremely inaccurate and thus, even if Hamas intended to hit military targets within Israel, are indiscriminate by nature. When rockets from Gaza kill Israeli civilians, it is a war crime.

Hamas has a military wing. However, it is not entirely a military organization, but a political one. Members of Hamas are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge. Others have been targeted for assassination, such as Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas official. To kill Rayan, Israel targeted a residential apartment building. The strike not only killed Rayan but two of his wives and four of his children, along with six others. There is no justification for such an attack under international law. This was a war crime.

Other of Israel’s bombardment with protected status under international law have included a mosque, a prison, police stations, and a university, in addition to residential buildings.

Moreover, Israel has long held Gaza under siege, allowing only the most minimal amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter. Israel is bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. Countless more have been wounded, and cannot receive medical attention. Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel. Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured. These people, too, are the victims of Israeli policies targeted not at Hamas or legitimate military targets, but directly designed to punish the civilian population.

Lie #2: Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a "special security zone" within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.

Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

Israel's actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.

Lie #3: Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.

There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as "human shields" in its propaganda. There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law.

Lie #4: Arab nations have not condemned Israel’s actions because they understand Israel’s justification for its assault.

The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israel’s actions and at their own governments for not condemning Israel’s assault and acting to end the violence. Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent their respective Arab populations. The populations of the Arab nations have staged mass protests in opposition to not only Israel's actions but also the inaction of their own governments and what they view as either complacency or complicity in Israel's crimes.

Moreover, the refusal of Arab nations to take action to come to the aid of the Palestinians is not because they agree with Israel’s actions, but because they are submissive to the will of the US, which fully supports Israel. Egypt, for instance, which refused to open the border to allow Palestinians wounded in the attacks to get medical treatment in Egyptian hospitals, is heavily dependent upon US aid, and is being widely criticized within the population of the Arab countries for what is viewed as an absolute betrayal of the Gaza Palestinians.

Even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been regarded as a traitor to his own people for blaming Hamas for the suffering of the people of Gaza. Palestinians are also well aware of Abbas' past perceived betrayals in conniving with Israel and the US to sideline the democratically elected Hamas government, culminating in a counter-coup by Hamas in which it expelled Fatah (the military wing of Abbas' Palestine Authority) from the Gaza Strip. While his apparent goal was to weaken Hamas and strengthen his own position, the Palestinians and other Arabs in the Middle East are so outraged at Abbas that it is unlikely he will be able to govern effectively.

Lie #5: Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.

Israel claims it sent radio and telephone text messages to residents of Gaza warning them to flee from the coming bombardment. But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to. They are trapped within the Gaza Strip. It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border. It is by Israeli design that they have no food, water, or fuel by which to survive. It is by Israeli design that hospitals in Gaza have no electricity and few medical supplies with which to treat the injured and save lives. And Israel has bombed vast areas of Gaza, targeting civilian infrastructure and other sites with protected status under international law. No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.

Jewish Debating Techniques

Source: http://worldpeace-phaedrus.blogspot.com/2008/05/jewish-debating-techniques-1.html

Oftentimes a lot of what we read enters the back of our minds at a subconscious level and it lies there, latent and gently percolating away until such time as an outside event prompts our conscious recollection of it. Such it was for Phaedrus with an old Patrick Grimm essay entitled 'The Taboo as Proof' (herewith today re-published below.)Taboos are very useful for putting sensitive subjects beyond debate, as Patrick himself pointed out. The one thing the Jews fear above all else is an even-handed and totally open investigation into their long and checkered history, for the ugliness thereby revealed would be simply beyond the belief of all bar the most heavily initiated of persons. Not surprisingly, therefore, the Jews have developed a series of techniques for stifling debate on such issues and avoiding having to address these sensitive matters AT ALL. This article is about one such technique and its most eloquent exponent, the 'British Jew' Alan Coren, who not-so-sadly died last year.

Those of us who espouse views which are generally taken to be outside the current spectrum of "acceptable opinion" by the popular media will - if we are lucky enough to get a platform in the first place - often find ourselves taken to task in the presence of a Jew by a hostile interviewer who falsely purports to be impartial. Many, many years ago, such encounters were the norm and indeed unfettered, free and open debate was quite properly regarded as the only viable route to establishing the real, underlying truth. But that was some decades ago when the Jewish stranglehold over 'permissible utterances' was very much weaker. I refer of course to those increasingly distant days prior to the advent of political-correctness.

Now, if one has something dreadful to hide for which one can offer no valid excuse, it doesn't benefit one to debate one's beliefs in the media spotlight, for fear of being caught short of an appropriate response to an unwelcome or unexpected question or accusation. The Jew, uniquely, has developed the perfect technique in such awkward situations: 'the disgusted walk-out.'

This 'storm of self-righteous indignation" method offers a number of benefits for any Jewish interviewee who's been caught off-guard on a sensitive issue. Namely:

1. It lends him elevated 'moral authority' - he appears to occupy the high moral ground by virtue of storming off in feigned disgust with his nose in the air, rather than 'lowering himself' to bandy words with those of seemingly fixed opinions hostile to Judaism.

2. It avoids him having to answer any awkward questions concerning his people and their 'interesting history' (such as the Holocaust period or the genocide in Palestine) that his interlocutor might confront him about from out of the blue with hard, indisputable evidence.

3. It creates in the audience a sense of sympathy and respect for the Jew, who though clearly so grievously insulted, exercised immense dignity and self-control by simply walking out, rather than punching his opponent on the nose.

4. Most importantly of course, it enables the Jew to yet again escape scott-free without ever having to address a single allegation made against him, his race, and/or their complex and deeply troubling history.

The Jewish Grand Master of the self-righteous storm-out was a 'British' radio and TV personality by the name of Alan Coren who enjoyed a long and active career in 'journalism' and broadcasting in the US and Britain before finally settling down at the BBC in London (at the license payers' expense, of course). Coren's parents came to Britain between the two World Wars and (like so many other Jewish immigrant families) changed their original name, COHEN, to something less obviously Jewish; in this case, "Coren" - not very imaginative but it nevertheless did the trick. Anyway, Coren's specialty was storming out in self-righteous indignation the moment anyone raised any uncomfortable facts concerning the Tribe of Satan.

Coren/Cohen had it down to a very fine art and really should have been a character actor. The moment anyone ventured into any area that was REMOTELY critical of the Jews or Israel, Coren would assume a deathly grave expression, solemnly gather his papers together, tear-off his microphone and earpiece with well-practiced theatricality, and simply walk out without a word, shaking his head in disgust. Seemingly no one ever worked out that the move was simply a ruse to avoid having to address the issue raised. The Jew Cohen would subsequently enjoy sympathy heaped upon him by empathetic viewers for his noble refusal to get down and dirty with 'racists and anti-Semites.'

So, gentile reader, please remember that Jews who walk out of interviews aren't really offended at all. They simply cannot justify themselves or their kind; they have no answers that the rest of us would deem acceptable. And they KNOW it!